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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield9/15/13 10:45 AM |
Yeah, the Floyd Landis comeback stage win was something to behold no matter how. LeMond's '89 TT was like a lightning bolt, Landis' was Turn of the Screw type tension.
Whiskey!
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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2635
Location: Canberra, Australia9/16/13 2:01 AM |
quote:
I've been riding seriously for 25 years. All of my local climbing PRs, every one of them, I set between age 41 and 44.
But how much of that is equipment? 25 years ago I was racing on a bike probably about 3kg heavier than what I ride today, plus you can now have closer ratio gears for climbing due to the increase in the number of cogs. The five smallest cogs on a 13-29 Campagnolo cassette are the exact same cog sizes as on the corncob 13-17 freewheel I first raced on in the 1970s. My fastest-ever 25 mile TT was ridden in my late 40s, but that was on a Cervelo P3 with disk wheels, aero bars, concealed cables, etc. 20 years prior to that, I was riding TTs on a standard road bike, and I'd say the Cervelo more than accounted for the minute or so that I was able to chop off my previous time.
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Wayne
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: Newark, DE9/16/13 4:47 AM |
Professional endurance sport didn't start yesterday. Anyway you look at it Horner's success at his age is very unusual. He's easily an outlier, and an outlier without a history of this kind of performance.
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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1690
9/16/13 6:41 AM |
Granted he has never shone in a Grand Tour, but he has won some big races before, He won The Basque Country a couple of years ago, absolutely crushed California in 2010, wasn't he 2nd at Tireno this year? so when he has been given team leadership he has come up with the goods.
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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4391
Location: metro-motown-area9/16/13 6:44 AM |
spanish cycling authorities screwed up
it was not a missed test, it was a case of "we went to the wrong address" and then sensationalized by the spanish media.
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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1690
9/16/13 6:50 AM |
Look I am I am not here to claim Chris's innocence or guilt, however if all of those details are indeed true, I sure hope that Wada has the balls to come out and admit they screwed up instead of trying to screw someone out of a paycheck.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19200
Location: PDX9/16/13 10:25 AM |
The story here is the leak as far as I am concerned. When such time a given rider tests positive, then that is the story. I am in the calling this BS camp. ;)
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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield9/16/13 10:34 AM |
Yeah, my comment could have been more clear.
I don't like it when it becomes a story about the story, battling press releases.
You would think someone on the team could have pointed the doping officials in the right direction. A test that morning couldn't have been a surprise.
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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3713
Location: Brooklyn, NY9/16/13 3:00 PM |
Depending on what time the inspectors showed up and how far Chris's hotel was from the team's, the inspectors might not have been able to reach Chris before 7 am.
The flip side of that conjecture is maybe the team reps stalled the inspectors until they couldn't reach Chris.
More to come, I'm sure.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19200
Location: PDX9/16/13 4:28 PM |
"“I tried everything, but I couldn’t do it,” Nibali told the Spanish daily AS. “It was impossible to finish off Horner. I have to settle for second place, but I leave the Vuelta very content.”
;)
Kudos to Nibali as always. Where was Horner during the Giro, BTW ?
I so wish I could have watched this live...
just watched the youtube of the Angliru finish. Talk about passing and disappearing in front of you!
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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3713
Location: Brooklyn, NY9/17/13 10:43 AM |
Recovering from a knee injury.
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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real9/17/13 2:56 PM |
Horner is as fresh as Nibali was during the Giro. He has less than half the racing that the other contenders had.
His recovery is what amazes me.
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19200
Location: PDX9/18/13 2:45 AM |
"His recovery is what amazes me"
The new PED regime may turn the cyclist's body internally into a mimetic poly-alloy, which could explain many things. ;)
Least of which being my minds eye. ;O
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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson9/18/13 1:46 PM |
Interesting transcript...
Horner trying very hard not to answer questions...
I would have thought he would have welcomed the chance to make things clear.
Sandiway
quote:
However the question remains as to whether he is a redacted name. A topic Cyclingnews tried to follow up with him on Tuesday after he had returned to his home in Oregon. In two brief conversations on Tuesday morning, Cyclingnews tried to ask Horner about the speculation.
Cyclingnews: There has been a lot of stuff on Twitter you may or may not have been aware of over the last few weeks. A lot of it speculation, a lot of it unfair but one of the points was the claim you are a redacted name, number 15 in the USADA report. Do you know anything about that?
Horner: No I don’t know anything about that. I’d have to read up on it or something.
Cyclingnews: I can give you the quote very quickly as I know you’re pressed for time. It’s in Levi Leipheimer’s affidavit, and it says…
Horner: Daniel, Daniel, I’m getting ready to drive right now. So there’s nothing I’m going to know on that. You’ll have to get hold of me another time because I’m on the phone and they’re going to give me a ticket if I’m driving with it on the phone.
Cyclingnews: Can I just ask one last question?
Horner: I’m driving with the phone and I’m going to get a ticket.
An hour later, Cyclingnews called Horner for a second time:
Horner: I’m busy right now. We’ll have to try another time. Thanks.
Cyclingnews: Are you free later on this evening?
Horner: No. I’ve just got home from doing the Tour of Spain, Daniel. I got three kids here and I’m done with the interviews. I’ve already done 200 or something like that. How come you didn’t come to Spain? I’ll let you go, I’m going to spend some time at home. Bye, bye.
[Horner hangs up]
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/is-chris-horner-a-redacted-name-in-usadas-reasoned-decision
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daddy-o
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 3307
Location: Springfield9/18/13 2:18 PM |
He's recently learned, been schooled, that the best way to keep your words from being twisted by professional wordsmiths (journalists and lawyers) is to keep yoour words to yourself.
How many times will his defining quote be "he (Armstrong) never tested positive."?
Is that quote an indictment of the controls, a defense of Armstrong, a foreshadowing, a fact or what?
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mag7
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 888
Location: Lake James, NC9/18/13 8:27 PM |
Agree - expect Horner is under strict instructions on what he can say and not say especially if the team is serious about seeking damages. If so, he should have just said that instead of being Mr. Nice Guy which could be interpreted as evasive.
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greglepore
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1724
Location: SE Pa, USA9/19/13 6:47 AM |
Very good read-Malcom Gladwell in the New Yorker Sept 9
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2013/09/09/130909crat_atlarge_gladwell
In principle, I agree totally.
As to Horner, I wish everyone would stfu. In the "old days" there was plenty of evidence that folks were on something, even if we didn't have specific evidence as to individuals. Not the case today, even if they are. So the speculation is somewhat baseless. Horner's power numbers are not extreme, he was fresh ( Nibali etal were spent) and what he did was not implausible.
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henoch
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 1690
9/19/13 7:19 AM |
One thing that people seem to be totally overlooking.
Horner beat Nibali by all of what 50 seconds
or so, over THREE weeks, so all things
being equal, if he was doping so was
Nibali and Velverde, it's not like he was hours ahead of them.
But the haters want to hate...
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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19200
Location: PDX9/19/13 9:43 AM |
" What’s most remarkable is the color of his face. It is a “shade of cardinal, mottled in places with purple,” and evocative of “the hue of the red paint that comes from this region’s iron-rich soil.”
Did he eat the stuff of just have a lot of mud baths ? ;)
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Wayne
Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 1475
Location: Newark, DE9/19/13 10:35 AM |
quote:
One thing that people seem to be totally overlooking.
Horner beat Nibali by all of what 50 seconds
or so, over THREE weeks, so all things
being equal, if he was doping so was
Nibali and Velverde, it's not like he was hours ahead of them.
But the haters want to hate...
I can't speak for others, but the things that makes Horner more suspicious in my mind are his age and lack of previous results anywhere near this one in GTs. At least the other protagonists have been in the ballpark for the past few years. While I do think the sport has cleaned up in a major way, the only thing that I would find more surprising than Horner doing this completely clean would be if the other 3 main protagonists were also completely clean.
I just don't think the cultural shift has been that profound and I don't think the testing is good enough that sufficiently motivated riders can't still get away with it, especially since it's been so quiet on the Biological Passport front for a while now.
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sanrensho
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 835
Location: North Vancouver9/25/13 10:36 AM |
Horner released all his UCI Biological Passport results tracing back to '08 today.
http://www.chrishornerracing.com/
In the end, Horner only won by 37 seconds. It was great to see him smash age records along the way to the Vuelta win.
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