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Early D2R2 Callout
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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/26/13 5:44 AM

Last year, we both used 34-35c 'cross tires

I used Kenda Kross Supreme's that have a pretty closed tread that rolls well on pavment and sharp edge lugs for cornering. Linda used her regular, general purpose 'cross tires. I forget what they are, but they're similar to the Michelin Mud II. I agree with Dan that between the loose surfaces and the need for more durability, road tires are not the best idea.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

8/26/13 4:44 PM

re: fatter, 28-32 tires

Hmm.. That rules out just about all road bikes. I guess a touring bike or cyclocross bike would be as close as one can get to a one-trick pony.

Sandiway

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/26/13 5:24 PM

Would some of those file center knobby edge CX type be good I wonder?

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

8/26/13 5:42 PM

File center, knobby edge

Yeah, I use Clement LAS tires, that's basically what they are. Work for me and I see no reason to switch. You could put 25 or 28s on a road bike and give it a shot, but I'm not sure why you'd want to. I got the crap beat out of me on washboard descents with the 33 cross tires, plus swiveled a bit through some sandy stuff. But certainly many riders are way more skilled than I.

As to bikes, I'd say cross bikes, touring/rando bikes and mountain bikes were all way more common than pure road bikes (I can only remember seeing one bike with what looked like normal road tires). But like I said, the Sandman says he prefers 25s in the right conditions. But he's bit better rider than I.

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/27/13 5:17 AM

We didn't ride the same course as Dan...

...but we were fine on regular 'cross tires (Linda @ 110# and me @ 172#). However, if we decide to ride the course in the Fall, I'll use my fat Conti CycloXKings (Conti calls them 42mm, but they're 37-38 on a typical road rim). They allow me to run lower pressures (34 front, 37 rear) for more cushion.

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

8/27/13 5:37 AM

You want low pressure?

I asked the guy on the Fatback what pressure he was using, and he said 11 :)

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Nick Payne
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 2625
Location: Canberra, Australia

8/27/13 9:39 PM

Peter Weigle just posted some photos from the ride on the 650b mailing list. His is the pink machine. He said he was riding 650b Pari Moto tyres (38mm road tyre with file tread).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8698135@N07/9602034100/in/set-72157635247599050/

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

8/29/13 12:34 PM

File center, knobby edge

I too, have those. (I forgot the exact brand). It's really optimized for hard pack dirt, not pavement. This ride is 80-90% dirt so road performance is really not a consideration. For those who rides a mix of dirt and pavement, these roll pretty fast on pavement too. In this case, too fast for me, AND DIDN'T GRIP AS WELL on pavement!

In the past, I've noticed these don't corner as well on pavement as the same wheel with road tires on. I've had momentary unsteadiness on fast corners when I would have be rock solid with road tires on the same bike. The day of the accident, I was only "scrubbing speed" (not full on braking) when the rear tire must have broke loose from the road surface. The rear wheel started to fish-tail, with the result of dumping me on the deck!

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Garvin
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 193
Location: NH Seacoast

8/29/13 3:14 PM

Pick Your Poison

I also of the mindset that file tread tires with some knobby side profile is the best compromise. The variety of terrain on that course and prevailing weather trends really make it difficult to settle one as the best. This was my third time doing the 180k and I ran at a high pressure (80+ psi) to avoid the pinch flats that occurred in the past with my overly compliant side-walled Vittorias Cross XN Pros. The downside was that in the soft sand sections I dug deep and in the rutted/washboard sections I was beat up pretty good. I only got half as far up on Archambo Rd(27%) as I have in the past due to the softer conditions and fully inflated tires. On the paved and hardpack sections I was in heaven though.

It was a great ride and the perfect weather probably was a big part of how 3 guys rode the 180k in under 6 hours! I was glad to shave 30mins off my best time.

A friend of mine with far more conservative tastes ranted about how he was not impressed with the rider's "style" with a hot pink bike and more chrome than a 50's hot rod. Different strokes but agree with Dan that there were a lot of cool bikes and a lot of cool people there....

@Nick thanks for posting that link and that photographer also captured my other diversionary hobby that has kept me away from this forum more than I'd like:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8698135@N07/9602053326/
absolutely fun to camp in but a ton of work to keep roadworthy for a guy that never takes care of his bikes.....

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Garvin
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 193
Location: NH Seacoast

8/29/13 3:19 PM

Pavement Conditions

Hope the healing is going well April.

Not sure where you went down but there were plenty of corners on pavement sections that I found a noticeable amount of rock/sand. What sucks is that if you had good gripping tires for the pavement, they might just as well have caused you to crash on one of the downhill dirt sections.

Guess that's why D2R2 is such an epic event filled with so many stories.

Get well soon!

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

8/29/13 4:41 PM

It's not the bike (or tire)

It's the rider!

I had been happy with these tires. They work well on dirt. Even though on pavement, it didn't grip as well as road tires, it's the right choice for the course.

In retrospect, I KNEW they don't corner as well on pavement and should have kept the speed down! There were so little pavement on this ride, there's no reason to be in such a hurry on tires not optimized for it...

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/29/13 4:47 PM

Too much air pressure maybe ?

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

8/29/13 5:11 PM


quote:
Too much air pressure maybe ?

Nah. If it's got good enough cushioning (for my weight) in the washboard, it's low enough to provide good grip. At least as good grip as those tires ever procide on hard surfaces!

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

8/30/13 5:37 AM

One thing that can happen...

...when running low pressure for dirt comfort is that at the higher speeds when cornering on pavement, the tire can deform and the tread can even roll under. I've noticed that my 'cross bike can get squirrely on the short jaunt from home to my local trails, if I push it too hard. This can also happen off-road,but it's harder to notice due to all of the bouncing around.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

8/30/13 7:29 AM


quote:
tread can even roll under

? mmm... not sure I get what you mean...

I get the tire deform part, but thread roll under what?

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

8/30/13 7:52 AM

Added factor

I don't know about the physics of the tires, but the stretch where April fell is described on the cue sheet as "Super-fast downhill with crazy turns and a full stop at the bottom."

I didn't ride this stretch this year, but did last year. It comes just after a climb I consider the hardest mile I have ridden on a bike, and about 50 miles in on a difficult course.

This ride has conditions most of us don't usually see.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

8/30/13 9:18 AM

Yeah, I WAS mindful of the "full stop at bottom" part but missed the "crazy turn" bit! :-(

The turn started gentle but got tighter and tighter. I was scrubbing speed (in control) when the grade suddenly pitch downward a lot steeper... that's when the reart wheel broke free and started fishtail that I couldn't recover from

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Garvin
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 193
Location: NH Seacoast

8/30/13 10:51 AM


quote:
I didn't ride this stretch this year, but did last year. It comes just after a climb I consider the hardest mile I have ridden on a bike, and about 50 miles in on a difficult course.


Was that Hillman Rd? I don't think I've ever ridden that section that April had her spill on but after that climb because the 180k course heads off in a different direction. No matter how slow and methodical I take it, it takes a while to get my head back in the game after Hillman.

And yes that ride has conditions most of us don't see. I do a loosely organized ride in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont that a couple of my friends set up and it is about as close as I have ridden to something of D2R2 stature.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/30/13 11:00 AM

Is the rear tire flat on your bike did you notice?

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dan emery
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 6884
Location: Maine

8/30/13 11:10 AM

Climb

Garvin, the climb I'm referring to is Pennell Hill Rd on the 115k course. Last year I saw 2 mph on the speedo as I barely got the pedals around in a 30x32. Harder than any mile of the Rockpile IMHO. But I think there's worse on the 180k!

And as to conditions, I do lots of washboard descents, but nothing that prepares me for Hawk's Road ("road" being a bit of a misnomer).

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Garvin
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 193
Location: NH Seacoast

8/30/13 11:31 AM

Good to know and definitely haven't been on it. I was thinking during my few moments of clarity during the ride about whether I'd be motivated to come back for another serving of the 180k. I thought I had enough and convinced myself on the drive home that I had a good run at 3 of them. But maybe it's worth going back to experience some of the other routes.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

8/30/13 11:56 AM

I have been searching for something possibly similar here on the west coast. Sounds like a total blast...

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

8/30/13 2:11 PM


quote:
And as to conditions, I do lots of washboard descents, but nothing that prepares me for Hawk's Road ("road" being a bit of a misnomer).


Dan, next time, try the 150K. There's a stretch that is just as rocky and loose but much steeper!

The cue actually suggest to walk it! I tried to ride it but only made it 1/3 of the way before one big rock/bump send me one way and my bike on another (low speed). Re-mounting was next to impossible and walking was just as difficult.

(the reason I attempted to RIDE it was last year I had a sprained ankle. Walking was more problematic)

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