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Shoulder fatigue & riding position
 

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/28/13 9:48 AM

Shoulder fatigue & riding position

Since I've changed saddle, my butt had been considerably happier but my shoulder less so...

And I'm not entirely sure what the cause or fix is.

My position changed with the new saddle. (nothing else changed, just saddle). I don't know why it is so but basically what makes me comfortable on the new saddle seems different from the old one. I've moved the new saddle back and forth and tilted it differently. I'm pretty comfortable where it is now.

I'm starting to use the drops more (I rarely ride in the drops with the previous saddle). I can understand that puts more weight on my arms. But even when I ride exclusively on the hoods, after a while, my shoulder starts to feel tired. No pain, just tired.

If I need to adjust the bar, I'm not sure which way to move it that would reduce stress on shoulders... down? up? closer/farther?

Or perhaps I need to do some upper body workout?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/28/13 10:33 AM

If you have one arm shorter than the other...

You can rotate the saddle slightly left or right. I rotate mine left slightly. You can have one STI slightly higher on the bar reducing the reach a little, and also have your stem slightly rotated or combinations that ad up to 5-10mm easily.

In the early season I seem to have a habit of hunching my shoulders which causes great discomfort when the rides extend to longer times. I have to make myself lower and relax them or I am miserable on the bike quickly. With enough miles and time on the bike relaxed shoulders gets easier and my grip on the bars is so light that a surprise bump can be a bit un-nerving. ;)

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/28/13 9:02 PM


quote:
If you have one arm shorter than the other...


Huh?

If I have one arm shorter than another, I would have had shoulder issue with the old saddle.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/28/13 9:41 PM

Just citing an example, attempting to make the point of reach adjustments not having to be symmetrical.

It does sound like the new saddle may have the sweet spot fore or aft. I used to get between the shoulder blades and a little higher pain when the reach was too short. Did yo mention if the top of the saddle to the rails was higher or lower than the old saddle? I have a few that have quite a difference in stack. I have to lower the post if i put on one with higher stack, etc.

Is it one shoulder or both sides you are experiencing the discomfort now?

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/29/13 9:13 AM


quote:
Is it one shoulder or both sides you are experiencing the discomfort now?

Both. But it's not really a pain or even a discomfort. Fatigue is the word, like the muscles on my shoulders and upper arms are getting TIRED! (And when I say "shoulders", I think I could almost say "upper chest")

It clearly felt like I'm slightly strained holding my upper body up. I suspect I've shifted a bit extra weight up front with the new saddle position. Except I'm not sure which way to move the bar... because it isn't apparent until I'm at least an hour into the ride before the strain starts to show. And once I get off the bike for a few minutes, it disappeared completely and will be good for another hour or two.


quote:
Did yo mention if the top of the saddle to the rails was higher or lower than the old saddle?

No I didn't. (because it it isn't)

Saddle height is extremely sensitive for just about everyone. The only time that would ever change is if there's a significant change in for-after position (sweet spot). It wasn't big enough a variation from the old one to require a change in height.

I swap saddle back and forth often. I don't notice much stack height differences. Some saddles may LOOK higher or lower, but I found they tend to have correspondingly different sag. The end result being about the same height from saddle to pedal.

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Wheels
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 1160
Location: Needham, MA

7/29/13 9:52 AM

You're getting old

simple answer as that.

Things that didn't hurt on me a few years back, do now. Same bike, same dimensions, same riding style. The only difference is my body is older. You'll be able to minimize it with more frequent hand movements/position changes, but I doubt eliminate it.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/29/13 10:42 AM

If the new saddle is allowing you slide forward due to it's shape, maybe your pectorals are getting a workout from the pushing back ? That is what a to wide saddle causes me to do.

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8337
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

7/29/13 10:44 AM

I tried to post the same thing earlier and the server hung up.

I would also point out that what is kind to your lady bits may not be so kind to your back, arms and shoulders.


Last edited by ErikS on 7/29/13 11:01 AM; edited 1 time in total

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/29/13 10:49 AM

Erik and my point I think make a good point. If you are trying to find a spot that is not pushing where you sit continually, or readjusting to get off pressure points of any sort. The new exercises you are putting some upper body muscles through may be the discomfort.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/29/13 11:24 AM


quote:
I would also point out that what is kind to your lady bits may not be so kind to your back, arms and shoulders.

My back and neck are fine. No discomfort there. So I'm not too worried.

The discomfort on my shoulders and arms are not the sort that used to makes me worried when it's with my neck. But rather it does feel like a "workout" of the muscles. You may very well be right that I'm pushing back with my arms.

So, I'm happy where the saddle is. What else can I do? An hour without getting off the bike isn't terrible short time. But I'm used to ride 2 hrs without rest (and totally lose myself in the rhythm of spinngin the crank...)

Do I just go lift some weights in the gym? Do some sit ups?

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/29/13 11:40 AM

One of these?



Or just keep doing what is making your muscles feel fatigued, they will develop, no? I am getting in a few 3-4 hour rides a week at this point. I have lowered my bars back down now that my femoral nerve is far along healing wise. I am finding more comfort lower, not as low as years back granted.

So maybe that is why you are riding the drops more than before?? I think how many miles for the season also plays into your seasonal position evolution to a degree. Less so for 3+k a year riders maybe.

Also, moving your butt rearward [in relation to BB] moves your CG back, less weight on your hands as more weight is forward of your CG makes a difference in hand and arm fatigue.

Moving your cleats a little forward may help as well. Also moves your CG rearward a bit.

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Sparky
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 19068
Location: PDX

7/29/13 11:57 AM

CG point I will add.

Recently 3 of us went up a gravel incline. This will really make you realize where your CG is as the tire breaks loose if too far froward. Being an old Motocrosser and lots of off road bicycle riding... I was the only one of the 3 of us that was able to ride up. My wheel broke loose a few times, and was at the edge of breaking loose for the entire incline.

Might be a good way for you to see if you are riding more forward then optimum if you can duplicate the road surface on a hill??

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

7/29/13 1:26 PM

shorten your stem

April,

You could have a slight reach problem with your new setup. One thing to try is a shorter stem and see if that alleviates the problem.

Sandiway

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/29/13 5:42 PM

You're probably right, Sandiway

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Brian Nystrom
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 5096
Location: Nashua, NH

7/30/13 5:14 AM

Check your saddle angle

Differences in shape and flex in saddles require minor changes in angle to keep you in place. For example, a saddle that has a dip in the middle or is more flexible in the middle will cause you to slide forward unless you tilt the nose upward more than you would with a flatter or more rigid saddle.

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April
Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 6593
Location: Westchester/NYC

7/30/13 8:39 AM

moaning and ranting alert

So I got home early yesterday and lo and behold, the stem on my other bike is 1cm shorter! Perfect candidate for a little experiement swapping the shorter stem to see if the new saddle introduced a reach problem!!!

Both stems off, put the shorter one on, taking care to get the headset pressure "just right" (never a big fan of threadless headset, where stem top cap double duty as headset adjuster). Handlebar, face plate..... f@#$##@! It's the wrong clamp size for the handlebar!!!

...

Took the stem off and put back the original one, taking care again to get the headset pressure right... Something so freaking simple wasted 1/2 hr and no result!

And we complain about M$ software backward incompatibilities? What can be simpler than a stem and a handlebar???

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Jesus Saves
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: South of Heaven

7/30/13 9:22 AM

Shorten the stem is a good tip. With that I would also suggest in the interim and potential quick fix to adjust your handlebars to tilt them up slightly, like 1 or 2 degrees. That may help. Plus stretching - by pulling your arms behind your back, from time to time. If you are talented like the pros (not me) you can do it while riding.

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