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2013 detroit auto show pics
 

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4226
Location: metro-motown-area

2/1/13 11:39 AM

2013 detroit auto show pics

http://brown-snout.com/events/2013_detroit-auto-show/

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

2/1/13 11:52 AM

cool

Cool pics. Can't remember the last time I went to a car show but I do remember Cobo Hall well.

The Audi TT has horrible suspension, if you didn't have any back problems, you will have after a test drive.

That Cayman you photographed looked surprisingly nice. I always thought the design didn't "flow" but Porsche must have done something to it. I once entertained thoughts of sticking a bike in the back of one but after inspecting one in a showroom, there is no way anything fits in the back.

The NSX concept looks very space age to me. Occasionally I see the same immaculate NSX parked in a strip mall near me. The original is very nice indeed. (Some of the later iterations had nasty looking headlights though...)

Sandiway

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4226
Location: metro-motown-area

2/1/13 11:58 AM

my favorite is/was the lexus LFA supercar

no pics of it in this spread. hard to believe the purest super-car in the world is made by toyota!

here's a couple LFA pics from 2011.
http://brown-snout.com/events/2011_detroit-auto-show/P1010423.JPG
http://brown-snout.com/events/2011_detroit-auto-show/P1010425.JPG

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Pat Clancy
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1341
Location: Manchester, CT

2/1/13 6:26 PM

Nice watch, but...

isn't a Porsche Design a little too obvious for an auto show? Maybe a Breitling Bently or a TAG Monaco?

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4226
Location: metro-motown-area

2/1/13 9:40 PM

a Porsche-design is way more authentic from a motorsports...

...perspective. it waz actually designed by Ferdinand's grandson; Ferdinand was the guy that penned the 356 and his grandson designed the 911 -- that's practically motorsport royalty running thru this watch's genes.

Those others you mention are nice, but are not too different from phat gold chains! ;-)

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/pd-turns-40-a-brief-history-of-porsche-design


Last edited by walter on 2/2/13 9:51 AM; edited 1 time in total

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ErikS
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 8287
Location: Slowing boiling over in the steamy south, Global Warming is real

2/2/13 2:39 AM

Fewer mid engine sports cars than years ago.

The Corvette is the first one in years that I like.

I had no idea the Viper was even still produced. It looks so 20 years ago to me. Meh.

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Paul Datars
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1220
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

2/7/13 12:17 PM

I feel fortunate that GM made the back end of the new Corvette so FUGLY, gunna save me a lot of money.

I guess I'm getting old because I also find the latest version of the Viper not nearly as nice looking as the '08 -'10 version...in fact I think the '03 -'06 Viper is the best looking one they made.

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

2/7/13 3:11 PM

Olde.

Sorry, guys, I'm old, the testosterone is gone, or these cars just suck.

A few years ago I saw a Shelby Cobra parked by the river in La Crosse. Blue, deep metallic as I recall, with the nice off-center white racing stripe. I think Tess was wiping my chin for a while after that. It was simply perfect .

None of these cars does that for me.

I understand the importance of what's under the hood, but whatever happened to design ?

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4226
Location: metro-motown-area

2/7/13 3:31 PM

inspiring design went the way of the do-do bird...

...when aerodynamics entered the picture.

those gorgeous cars from the 60s and before will never come back, the harsh truth of the wind-tunnel being the final arbiter of what gets produced. those gorgeous shapes may look streamlined but they're actually terrible with airflow management and do nothing to improve handling or performance or efficiency.

while today's designs dont stir the soul...the proof is in the pudding: despite being significantly heavier and with smaller engines and choked by emissions controls compared to the cars of yore, the cars of today produce more power, achieve way higher fuel efficiency, handle light years better, produce far less emissions, and are significantly safer than anything ever imagined back then.

i drove my cousin's gorgeous '67 vette last fall and it was a joke...it made lots of noise and easily laid down nice long darkies with the touch of my right foot, but it was an absolute POS to drive, uncomfortable, and smelled of unburned fuel.

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dddd
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3158
Location: NorCal

2/7/13 4:08 PM

In the eye of the beholder...

I, for one, dig the design of the various Prius cars.

Especially with the rather roomy interior making it through all the wind-tunnel testing.

I would buy a gas-powered Prius over almost any other car.
Better yet, make it van-sized. Maybe the vans will morph more toward this (recalling the GM "dust-busters" of the early(?) 1980's).

But then, I'm a cyclist and M.E. with years spent working in wind tunnels.

Sorry . (doing my best Monty Python here, but whether that was conveyed)?

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

2/7/13 4:09 PM

Prius vs. Corvette

I read somewhere that the Prius has better aerodynamics, less drag than a Corvette.

Needless to say, the Prius has more room too.

Sandiway

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Paul Datars
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1220
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

2/8/13 8:20 AM

If a Corvette was as small (think frontal area) as a Prius it would have less drag BUT there'd also be no way to fit in 500+ hp...so ultimately even though there's more drag it does end up being faster, which of course is what it's ALL about :-)

As for the Prius having more room than a Corvette (specifically the C6), I actually doubt that is true, at least when it comes to my needs. I regularly put two complete bicycles and a weekend's worth of luggage along with two people in my Corvette, there's no way you could put MORE than all of that in a Prius.

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PLee
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 3493
Location: Brooklyn, NY

2/8/13 9:55 AM

59"x69" - Prius cross-section.
49"x72" - Corvette cross-section.

I suspect the Prius may have a lower Cd, coefficient of drag, but with that difference in profile, the aerodynamic drag on the Prius is likely to be higher than on the Corvette.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4226
Location: metro-motown-area

2/8/13 9:59 AM

corvette vs. prius

i dunno. the vette has lots of vents and scoops and curves and bumps, whereas the prius is relatively clean and smoove. i think in total the prius has gotta be more slippery than the C6 vette, even moreso vs the C7.

IIRC total drag = cross-section * CdA (or something like that)

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Andy M-S
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 3201
Location: Hamden (greater New Haven) CT

2/8/13 10:19 AM

Wind Tunnel? Bollox.

These cars aren't designed using a wind tunnel. If they were, more cars would look like the Honda Fit or the old Honda Civic Wagon (the latter had a particularly tiny coefficient of drag). Or they'd have significant farings underneath, where all the ugly stuff is.

I'm not looking for huge air-gulping vents (though the Cobra was nice in that regard). I'm looking for a sense of style.

I loved my Civic Wagon. It stood out; the Fit is sort of like that, but... The cars at the show look mostly like clones, and even the so-called muscle cars, which largely eschew aerodynamics (look at a modern Mustang and compare it to the pony cars of old) are just damned ugly. Heavy-looking. No grace, no flow.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

2/8/13 11:31 AM

cdA

Yeah, cd multiplied by A (area) is what counts, the Prius and Corvette are very similar. In one web article, the 2004 Prius was slightly better than some version of the Corvette (C5?).

The original Honda Insight is supposed to be the best of all.

Paul, I'll take your word for what you can fit in a Corvette. But a 2nd generation Prius with its seats folded down can carry a surprising amount of stuff. I'm not so familiar with the 3rd generation.

Sandiway

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Alenhoff
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 237
Location: Detroit, MI

2/8/13 11:47 AM


quote:
the harsh truth of the wind-tunnel being the final arbiter of what gets produced.


Generally true, but it's interesting that GM chose to ignore the verdict of the wind tunnel when it built the ELR (the Cadillac version of the Volt). They were determined that it was going to look like the Converj concept vehicle, even though that likely reduced its mileage and electric range. I guess you can do that with a Cadillac.

Another interesting takeaway from visiting the Detroit show:

It seems to me that Hyundai, the Walmart of automakers, has become an industry styling leader. (I compare Hyundai to Walmart because of its low price points and because a good deal of that company's success in recent years has been related to its eagerness to offer sub-prime loans to its buyers. It leads the industry in that regard.)

For example, look at some of the new Fords. You can see the Hyundai/Korean influence in the styling.

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sandiway
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4902
Location: back in Tucson

2/8/13 11:58 AM

stylists...

Car are getting more similar not just for aerodynamic reasons.

Kia/Hyundai got the chief Audi stylist a number of years ago.
Ford recently got a Hyundai stylist who had moved to Mercedes.

Sandiway

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Paul Datars
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 1220
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

2/8/13 12:54 PM

When it comes to the 'new' muscle cars (Camaro, Mustang, Challanger) I think part of their heavy look problem is the high 'belt-line' required for the new safty standards.

What I now find shocking about the old generation of muscle cars is just how upright their front windshields are. Aerodynamically this can present a considerable safety issue in that with modern engines it's not that hard to make a 1000+ hp and stick it in an old muscle car. With that much hp and modern under-pinnings one can easily 'push' one of those old bodies to over 200mph. The force this applies to the front windshield is scary, it's enough that the windshield can get pushed around with it potentially blowing out, NOT something you'd want to have happen while travelling alone at 200+ :-0

The laid back windshields on my Vette, and my Caddy for that matter, reduce the fear factor at very high speeds a great deal.

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walter
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 4226
Location: metro-motown-area

2/8/13 9:28 PM

high BeltLines are always a bad idea

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